Interview with Nils Jacobson: All About Jazz

[Hotep Idris Galeta]

Hotep Idris Galeta: Takes It Home
Hotep Idris Galeta - Published: November 15, 2003
By Nils Jacobson

Despite more than three decades on wax, pianist Hotep Idris Galeta has largely escaped the public eye. Perhaps that's not too much of a surprise, given his rather unassuming nature and the fact that he's never had much of an itch for the spotlight.

Galeta (b. June 7, 1941) grew up in Cape Town, South Africa. During his teenage years he was drawn into a very active nucleus of South African jazz musicians. Abdullah Ibrahim (then Dollar Brand) served as an early mentor; Galeta performed with local stars including Chris McGregor, Dudu Pukwana, Johnny Gertze, and Makaya Ntoshoko. But by the turn of the '60s, South Africa had institutionalized apartheid and instituted martial law, driving most of these musicians abroad.


After a year in London with a number of South African expatriates, Galeta travelled to the United States, where he expanded his horizons through both formal and informal education. For two years in the late '60s, he played in Hugh Masekela's band, including a notable performance at the notorious 1967 Monterey International Pop Festival. His musical journey took him many places, including a later stint with Masekela and a productive association with Jackie McLean. He served on the faculty of the University of Hartford's Hartt College of Music in Connecticut and continues to emphasize music education to this day.


Among notable recordings from the '90s, Mario Pavone's "Toulon Days" stands as a high water mark. It features the inspired composition “Monk In Soweto” (to resurface later) and brought a young and unsigned Joshua Redman to the public eye. Around this time, Galeta finally returned to South Africa optimistic about the country's future after 30 intervening years of apartheid.


His third record as a leader, "Malay Tone Poem" , came out last year on South Africa's Sheer Sound label. Produced by Zim Ngqawana and featuring the Safro Jazz Quintet, this date includes ten original compositions. A tour de force of creative post bop, "Malay Tone Poem" was recognized as a three-way nominee for the South African Music Awards. It pointedly signals the vision and potential of both Hotep Idris Galeta and contemporary South African jazz.


This interview was conducted by email in June, 2003.


See complete discography .






All About Jazz: Your early exposure to jazz musicians in Cape Town played a major role in your musical development. Whom do you remember most vividly from this period? How did these experiences fit into the situation in South Africa at the time?


Hotep Galeta: In the fifties there were quite a number of older musicians who influenced my early jazz education. The bassist Lamie Zukufa exposed me to the music of Bud Powell and Bird when I was sixteen years old.


As a young musician I later met Dollar Brand (now known as Abdullah Ibrahim), who also played a significant role in my early musical development, both as a friend and as a role model. He was the one who exposed me to the music of Thelonious Monk and Sonny Rollins. Unlike his laid back style of playing today, Abdullah's music during that period was extremely avant garde, fiery and revolutionary, due to his artistic reactions to the oppressive political conditions that started to evolve at the advent of the legislated draconian apartheid racist - fascist laws.


Most of us at that time played in the hard bop tradition, with an added mixture of South African traditional music thrown in. I was seriously into the music of Bobby Timmons and Horace Silver. I also hung out with the pianist Chris McGregor and the saxophonist Dudu Pukwana a lot. These two musicians opened my ears to the music of Herbie Nichols and Ornette Coleman, which changed my musical concepts quite drastically.


By that time I had like many others, become increasingly involved with the revolutionary underground struggle against the facist - racist regime.


AAJ: Things were very hot in South Africa in 1961. In the aftermath of Sharpeville, tensions were painfully high. Everyone was leaving. How did you get out of the country, and what sort of South African community did you find abroad in London and elsewhere?


HG: When things became too hot, a lot of us departed. I left by boat for Southampton, England in 1961 under an assumed name with the assistance of underground connections. This was shortly after the Sharpeville massacre, the first state of emergency, the banning of the ANC and other political parties, and the imposition of martial law.


When I arrived in England I headed for London, where I hooked up with some members of the cast of the South African jazz opera “King Kong” that had been playing at one of the theatres in London's West End for the past year. This eased the feelings of loneliness in a strange environment.


I stayed in London for about a year. In fact that is where I heard my first live American jazz. I attended a John Coltrane concert one evening that featured Reggie Workman on bass and Eric Dolphy on alto and bass clarinet. “My Favorite Things”... I was in heaven!


I arrived in New York in the summer of 1962. Somehow I slowly lost touch with the musicians from home. Chris McGregor and Dudu Pukwana eventually left South Africa a few years later with their quintet called the Blue Notes, They were to create a huge impact upon the English and European jazz scene with their fiery brand of South African avant garde jazz.


AAJ: What made you leave the name Cecil Barnard behind?


HG: I legally changed my name to Hotep Idris Galeta in the late '80s when I embarked upon a personal spiritual quest. In fact my traditional last name or surname is Galeta, but my father's Christian name was Barnard... so in my neighborhood folks used to call me Cecil Barnard, which is the name I used when I exited South Africa.


My personal spiritual journey was also the result of me embracing and exploring aspects within the Islamic mystical traditions called Sufism. In Cape Town, where I grew up, I was exposed to this way of life as a youngster because we have quite a large Muslim community here. There are a few Sufi orders within these socio-religious structures that impacted deeply upon me early in my life. Some of my family belonged to these orders.


It is quite common in South African society, particularly in the communities where I come from, to have family members who are Christians and Muslims. This mystical way of life and philosophy was appealing because music, dance and a holistic approach to life played a central role as the catalyst in the rituals to expand one's consciousness.


The central philosophy also stressed that in essence all belief systems and humanity are connected to and guided by one central cosmic intelligence, whatever name we would like to call it. I therefore feel at home in all the major planetary belief systems and religious philosophies, as long as they do not reflect a narrow minded fundamentalist point of view or dogmatic approach to life and the pursuit of happiness. In a nutshell that's how I'd like to leave it.


AAJ: Over the 35 years you've been active in recording, you've covered a lot of ground. In addition to a few excursions outside the boundaries of jazz, you spent a lot of time with Hugh Masekela and Jackie McLean. How did you get together with these two musicians?


HG: I first met Hugh Masekela in the late '50s when he was a member of a group called The Jazz Epistles. This band included Dollar Brand now known as Abdullah Ibrahim on piano, Kippie Moeketsie on alto sax, Jonas Gwangwa on trombone, Johnny Gertse on bass, and Makaya Ntshoko on drums. I think the fact that because both of us came from this South African background, that we love and play jazz but could also play our own traditional music, was the major catalyst for us working so well together.


“Today in a democratic South Africa, jazz is thriving in an environment of freedom and racial reconciliation.”


I've had two stints in Hugh's band. One that began in 1967-68 and then again in 1981-82. It was during this last stint in Hugh's band, that Rene McLean who was also in the band at that time, introduced me to his father,the late great alto jazz master Jackie McLean.. To make a long story short, I began teaching at the University of Hartford's Hartt School of Music's African American Music Department in 1985 after being invited by Jackie to become part of the jazz faculty. I also joined his band during that period and stayed with the band and at Hartt for eight years.


AAJ: What was most memorable about your experience with Jackie McLean?


HG: Playing and working with Jackie, who was undoubtedly one of the great masters of this music, was a real blessing. This was indeed the highlight in my musical development for which I am forever grateful. He was a great musician - bandleader,,a fantastic teacher and a wonderful human being.


My relationship with Jackie McLean was quite interesting on and off the bandstand. Since both of us were living in Hartford, Connecticut we use to spend a lot of time together whenever we could. I would go over to his house quite often to hang out. There we would play and talk about music. Jackie was always looking for new approaches to deal with musical expression. Since he also had a great interest in ancient African history, we used to have deep discussions concerning issues related to that topic. I shared some of my experiences growing up in South Africa with him, particularly those stories that had been passed down to me by the elders in our communities.


He told me this funny story once. Jackie, of course, grew up on Sugar Hill in Harlem. He said that as a teenager. he use to go to Bud Powell's house for lessons after his high school classes every day. On one particular day when Bud opened the door, he looked down the hallway and saw Monk sitting in an armchair, fast asleep. Bud whispered to him, “Monk's sleeping! Come back tomorrow afternoon.”


Naturally he returned the next day at the same time, knocked on the door. Bud opened it again, and as he looked down the hallway, there was Monk sitting in the armchair in the same position he saw him the previous day, still fast asleep. Bud said to him, “Monk's still sleeping.” It was this sharing of experiences and camaraderie that made our relationship so special.


AAJ: I think it's important for you to touch on the emotions you experienced upon your return to South Africa. What was it like to come back, and how well did you adjust?


HG: I was sad to leave the band in 1991, but I really wanted to come back to South Africa when I saw that the regime was buckling under internal and external pressure and that a new era was at hand. Coming back home was an emotional experience. I had been gone for quite a long time and had to get used to a different mindset which sometimes made me feel that I was from a different galaxy. It was difficult at first, but I am now fully integrated back into the culture.


AAJ: How do you think your family adjusted to the move? What do you miss most from abroad?


HG: My two eldest children stayed behind in the U.S. My eldest son lives in L.A. he is 35 and my daughter just graduated from College in Atlanta she is 21. I miss them, hence I try to make that 17-hour plane trip about once a year to visit them.


AAJ: Your new record with the Safro Jazz Quintet, Malay Tone Poem , represents the state of the art, so to speak. You recruited a tremendous group of musicians for the record. Zim Ngqawana in particular played a major role, both as producer and as performer. He seems to be more and more active in South African jazz.


Can you explain how your relationship with Zim developed? And what do you think he brought to the music?


HG: I first met Zim in Atlanta at the Jazz Festival when I was playing there with the late tenor saxophonist Dewey Redman, just before my return to South Africa in 1991. Zim was over in the U.S doing an internship with Yusef Lateef at Hampshire College in Amherst, Massachusetts. When I returned to Cape Town, we hooked up and he played in my band for a while. He was the one who introduced me to the executives at Sheer Sound.


I like his playing, and since he also produced a couple of albums in the past, I asked him to play on and produce mine. Zim, who is from the ethnic group the Xhosa, brought that element of traditional sound that I wanted to hear on the album. He's a beautiful musician and also a very humble person.


AAJ: How do you think this particular collection of pieces reveals the relationship between the past and the present?


HG: I think the music on the album reflects the experiences that I've gone through and the journeys that I've taken over the last 62 years of my life on this planet.


AAJ: I have to comment on my favorite tune. “Monk In Soweto” does a wonderful job of bringing traditions together, with plenty of unexpected twists. I first heard it on Toulon Days. How was it to work with Mario Pavone, a master of the unexpected?


HG: Mario Pavone and I go back to my days in Hartford, Connecticut. We used to play together at a club called The 880. I always liked his musical approach and we developed a great relationship. He asked me do an album with him, and I introduced him to Joshua Redman... and of course the rest is history.


AAJ: You've also been reaching out toward new technology. When did you decide to get involved with electronic music and production?


HG: My interest in music technology started in the '70s when I was living in San Francisco. I played for a minute in the Eddie Henderson Band, where I had to play Fender Rhodes Electric piano and synthesizers. Mike Nock, who had a band called the Fourth Way, was one of the piano players who hipped me to electronic keyboards. Remember, Herbie Hancock and Chick Corea were also into it.


I now have a Apple Power Mac G4, hooked up to a Roland A-37 Midi Keyboard controller, a Roland XV-5050 Sound module plus Cubase/Reason music production software. Recently I've become involved in a business venture that writes television jingles for the South Africa Broadcasting Corp., hence the technical setup.


AAJ: To what extent is electronic music compatible with acoustic jazz?


HG: There is no connection or synergy between this and acoustic music. Totally different and separate, like oil and water. They do not mix.


AAJ: On a different note, you've spent a lot of time doing music education. What approach do you think works best for introducing young people to music and performance?


HG: Since my music educational involvement with the youth here in Cape Town, I've become interested in hip-hop music, as you can hear from one of the tracks on my CD. This is one of the tools I use to expose them to various other musical genres. It works quite well, as it is something that they can relate to quite well. With the youth I stress discipline and commitment. Our motto is “No pain no gain.”


AAJ: And now, the predictable finale. How do you feel about the state of jazz today, and where does South Africa fit into the big picture?


HG: Your last question is a tough one. Jazz over the last couple of decades has become a world music with many role players. It's an American art form. However, times have changed, and there are many other influences affecting the music.


Today in a democratic South Africa, jazz is thriving in an environment of freedom and racial reconciliation. At present there exists an up and coming core of extremely masterful young musicians, both black and white. Some of them are graduates from tertiary institutions here in South Africa with vibrant jazz education programs and some come from community jazz education programs.


Gloria Bosman, Judith Sephuma, Melanie Scholtz, Zim Ngqawana, Kevin Gibson, Andile Yenana, Lulu Gontsana, Mark Fransman, Eddie Jooster, Buddy Wells, Paul Hamner, Keshivan Naidoo, Dominic Peters, Andre Petersen, Victor Masondo, Marcus Wyatt, Herbie Tshoali, Themba Mkize and the late Moses Taiwa Molelekwa. These are just a few of the new innovative core of younger South African musicians who are responsible for taking the music in a new creative direction. Their vision and innovative approaches are creating a significant impact upon the South African jazz scene by the development of new concepts and ideas within the South African jazz genre.


I strongly believe that some serious musicians from South Africa will be affecting the course of jazz within this new millennium.